[DCRM-L] many, many misnumbered pages

[Jessie Sherwood]

 When I started studying Latin paleography with the late Virginia Brown, we
got a table of Latin letter forms from Kirchner's Scriptura Latina libraria
a saeculo primo usque ad finem Medii Aevi, which is very helpful in
illustrating that U/u and V began as the same letter rendered in different
scripts. The convention of using a v (the angular or pointed u, as it's
often called) at the beginning of the word and u elsewhere is a somewhat
later practice, and one I have seen more often in early modern print than
in medieval manuscripts.

On Tue, 16 Jul 2019 at 13:33, Deborah J. Leslie <DJLeslie at folger.edu> wrote:

> Joan, it's not a matter of modern vs archaic; it's a matter of which
> lowercase letterforms correspond to the uppercase V's. Since you're
> converting from upper- to lowercase, you follow the practice of the
> printer. In this pre-modern alphabet (i.e., no uppercase J or U), the
> lowercase letterform 'v' was conventionally used at the beginning of the
> word, while the lowercase letterform 'u' was used in medial or final
> position, regardless of whether the letter represents vocalic or
> consonantal use.
>
>
>
> I'm curious about that 'Cvmpliendo'. Any chance you can snap a shot of
> that page?
>
>
>
> Also, is this record RDA-compliant DCRM(B)?
>
>
>
> Deborah J. Leslie | Folger Shakespeare Library | djleslie at folger.edu |
>
>
>
> *From:* DCRM-L [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] *On Behalf Of *Joan
> Milligan
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 16 July, 2019 11:43
> *To:* DCRM Users' Group
> *Subject:* Re: [DCRM-L] many, many misnumbered pages
>
>
>
> Deborah,
>
>
>
> First the pagination. It does not self-correct, so currently my 300 reads:
>
> 16 unnumbered pages, 334 [i.e. 323] pages, 29 unnumbered pages ; $b
> illustration ; $c 21 cm (4o)
>
> As for the u’s and v’s, you are right, it is: TRATADO BREVE DEL DVLCISSIMO
> NOMBRE DE MARIA. Words on page [iii]: Cvmpliendo … con gusto … Reuerendo
> Padre…” Both the u’s and v’s are roman, medial, and used as vowels.
>
> I think where I get stuck is that I have been thinking about the letters’
> use in the words. I mean, clearly the typesetter has both u’s and v’s, so
> why use a “u” in “gusto” (a correct modern spelling), while also using it
> in the word “Reueredno” (Reverendo)? And why use a “v” in ‘Cvmpliendo”
> (Cumpliendo)? The use of the u’s and v’s are not consistent in my mind. Is
> that all irrelevant? Just transcribe according to the rules and stop
> overthinking?
>
> Thank you for your help.=!
>
>
>
> Joan
>
>
>
> Joan Milligan
>
> Special Collections Cataloger
>
> University of Dayton Libraries
>
> 300 College Park
>
> Dayton, Ohio 45469-1360
>
> 937-229-4075
>
> jmilligan1 at udayton.edu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 10:56 AM Deborah J. Leslie <DJLeslie at folger.edu>
> wrote:
>
> The rule of thumb in how to treat misnumberings is whether the
> misnumberings are self-correcting, and I can't tell from your description.
> If self-correcting, that is, if the misnumberings are anomalous and the
> last numbered page corresponds to the actual number of pages in the
> sequence, ignore the misnumberings in the pagination. A note may be made
> about the misnumberings, but is optional (unless a misnumbering represents
> the last page of a sequence).
>
>
>
> However, I believe your book is OCLC #433778755, yes? Apparently the
> pagination does not self-correct, although their method in the 300$a is not
> the preferred way to record the fact that the last numbered page doesn't
> correspond with the actual number of pages. Review DCRM(B) 5B7.2.
>
>
>
> You'll also want to re-check the UV in your title transcription. Be
> suspicious of all uppercase V's, and follow the practice of the printer for
> type classification (e.g., roman), use (vowel or consonant), and position
> (initial or medial). The conventional lowercase forms for uppercase 'V' for
> the time would be an initial lowercase 'v'—regardless of vowel or
> consonant—and a medial lowercase 'u'—again, regardless of whether it's a
> vowel or consonant.  Without seeing the title page, I'd guess it reads TRATADO
> BREVE DEL DVLCISSIMO NOMBRE DE MARIA, with corresponding lowercase forms
> of 'V' as Tratado breue del dulcissimo nombre de Maria, which is exactly
> how the Biblioteca Nacional de Espana has done it. Of course, you will add
> a 246 for the title with uppercase V's.
>
>
>
> Thanks for asking the question, Joan, and I encourage more questions like
> these. No need to sweat things out alone!
>
>
>
> Deborah J. Leslie, MA, MLS | Senior Cataloger, Folger Shakespeare Library
> | djleslie at folger.edu | 201 East Capitol Street, S.E. | Washington, DC
> 20003 | 202.675-0369 | orcid.org 0000-0001-5848-5467
>
>
>
> *From:* DCRM-L [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] *On Behalf Of *O'Keefe,
> Doris
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 16 July, 2019 10:03
> *To:* DCRM Users' Group
> *Subject:* Re: [DCRM-L] many, many misnumbered pages
>
>
>
> Joan,
>
>
>
> At the American Antiquarian Society our standard note is:
>
>
>
> Errors in paging: p. 15, 43, 46 misnumbered 51, 45, 47.
>
>
>
> Eleven is a lot of misnumbered pages! To make the note more concise, if
> the errors are consecutive we’d note:
>
>
>
> Errors in paging: p. 15, 43-46 misnumbered 51, 45-48.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
> Doris O’Keefe
>
> Senior Cataloger for Rare Books
>
> American Antiquarian Society
>
> 185 Salisbury Street
>
> Worcester, Mass 01609
>
> (508) 471-2145
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* DCRM-L [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu
> <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu>] *On Behalf Of *Joan Milligan
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2019 9:54 AM
> *To:* DCRM Users' Group
> *Subject:* [DCRM-L] many, many misnumbered pages
>
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
>
>
> I need help in phrasing two notes in a more correct and sleek manner. For
> the first, I currently I have:
>
>           *Eleven pages missing: 62, 87, 235-242, 312.*
>
> But, the truth is, the 11 pages are not missing, per se, they are
> misnumbered. That is, the pagination is, for instance:
>
> … 60, 61, 63, 64 …
>
> … 233, 234, 243, 244, 245 ...
>
>
>
> In addition, I have:
>
>           *Eleven pages misnumbered: 15, 43, 46, 49, 118, 119, 180, 249,
> 253, 255, 309. *
>
> That is, page 15 says “51”; page 43 says “45”; page 46 says “47”; etc.
>
>
>
> Should all of this information be in one note?
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Joan
>
>
>
> Joan Milligan
>
> Special Collections Cataloger
>
> University of Dayton Libraries
>
> 300 College Park
>
> Dayton, Ohio 45469-1360
>
> 937-229-4075
>
> jmilligan1 at udayton.edu
>
>
>
>

-- 
Jessie Sherwood, Ph.D., MLIS
Associate Librarian
The Robbins Collection
UC Berkeley, School of Law
Tel: 510.643.1236
jcsherwood at law.berkeley.edu
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