[DCRM-L] many, many misnumbered pages

[Joan Milligan]

Joan Milligan
Tue, Jul 16, 10:05 PM (10 hours ago)
to me
Thank you to Ted and Jessie for your explanations!

DCRM(B) Appendix G says to find letters expressed in the opposite case.
Therefore, I needed to find words with a lowercase "v" in medial positions,
which I did not do. I found the word “Cvmpliendo,” but Kathie pointed out
it is actually “CVmpliendo.” (I get it, although originally I didn’t see it
that way myself). After looking at several more pages, the only v's I see
are in the initial position. Is that what you expected?

Joan

Joan Milligan
Special Collections Cataloger
University of Dayton Libraries
300 College Park
Dayton, Ohio 45469-1360
937-229-4075
jmilligan1 at udayton.edu




On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 7:03 PM Jessie Sherwood <jcsherwood at law.berkeley.edu>
wrote:

> When I started studying Latin paleography with the late Virginia Brown, we
> got a table of Latin letter forms from Kirchner's Scriptura Latina libraria
> a saeculo primo usque ad finem Medii Aevi, which is very helpful in
> illustrating that U/u and V began as the same letter rendered in different
> scripts. The convention of using a v (the angular or pointed u, as it's
> often called) at the beginning of the word and u elsewhere is a somewhat
> later practice, and one I have seen more often in early modern print than
> in medieval manuscripts.
>
> On Tue, 16 Jul 2019 at 13:33, Deborah J. Leslie <DJLeslie at folger.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Joan, it's not a matter of modern vs archaic; it's a matter of which
>> lowercase letterforms correspond to the uppercase V's. Since you're
>> converting from upper- to lowercase, you follow the practice of the
>> printer. In this pre-modern alphabet (i.e., no uppercase J or U), the
>> lowercase letterform 'v' was conventionally used at the beginning of the
>> word, while the lowercase letterform 'u' was used in medial or final
>> position, regardless of whether the letter represents vocalic or
>> consonantal use.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm curious about that 'Cvmpliendo'. Any chance you can snap a shot of
>> that page?
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, is this record RDA-compliant DCRM(B)?
>>
>>
>>
>> Deborah J. Leslie | Folger Shakespeare Library | djleslie at folger.edu |
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* DCRM-L [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] *On Behalf Of *Joan
>> Milligan
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 16 July, 2019 11:43
>> *To:* DCRM Users' Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [DCRM-L] many, many misnumbered pages
>>
>>
>>
>> Deborah,
>>
>>
>>
>> First the pagination. It does not self-correct, so currently my 300 reads:
>>
>> 16 unnumbered pages, 334 [i.e. 323] pages, 29 unnumbered pages ; $b
>> illustration ; $c 21 cm (4o)
>>
>> As for the u’s and v’s, you are right, it is: TRATADO BREVE DEL
>> DVLCISSIMO NOMBRE DE MARIA. Words on page [iii]: Cvmpliendo … con gusto …
>> Reuerendo Padre…” Both the u’s and v’s are roman, medial, and used as
>> vowels.
>>
>> I think where I get stuck is that I have been thinking about the letters’
>> use in the words. I mean, clearly the typesetter has both u’s and v’s, so
>> why use a “u” in “gusto” (a correct modern spelling), while also using it
>> in the word “Reueredno” (Reverendo)? And why use a “v” in ‘Cvmpliendo”
>> (Cumpliendo)? The use of the u’s and v’s are not consistent in my mind. Is
>> that all irrelevant? Just transcribe according to the rules and stop
>> overthinking?
>>
>> Thank you for your help.=!
>>
>>
>>
>> Joan
>>
>>
>>
>> Joan Milligan
>>
>> Special Collections Cataloger
>>
>> University of Dayton Libraries
>>
>> 300 College Park
>>
>> Dayton, Ohio 45469-1360
>>
>> 937-229-4075
>>
>> jmilligan1 at udayton.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 10:56 AM Deborah J. Leslie <DJLeslie at folger.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>> The rule of thumb in how to treat misnumberings is whether the
>> misnumberings are self-correcting, and I can't tell from your description.
>> If self-correcting, that is, if the misnumberings are anomalous and the
>> last numbered page corresponds to the actual number of pages in the
>> sequence, ignore the misnumberings in the pagination. A note may be made
>> about the misnumberings, but is optional (unless a misnumbering represents
>> the last page of a sequence).
>>
>>
>>
>> However, I believe your book is OCLC #433778755, yes? Apparently the
>> pagination does not self-correct, although their method in the 300$a is not
>> the preferred way to record the fact that the last numbered page doesn't
>> correspond with the actual number of pages. Review DCRM(B) 5B7.2.
>>
>>
>>
>> You'll also want to re-check the UV in your title transcription. Be
>> suspicious of all uppercase V's, and follow the practice of the printer for
>> type classification (e.g., roman), use (vowel or consonant), and position
>> (initial or medial). The conventional lowercase forms for uppercase 'V' for
>> the time would be an initial lowercase 'v'—regardless of vowel or
>> consonant—and a medial lowercase 'u'—again, regardless of whether it's a
>> vowel or consonant.  Without seeing the title page, I'd guess it reads TRATADO
>> BREVE DEL DVLCISSIMO NOMBRE DE MARIA, with corresponding lowercase forms
>> of 'V' as Tratado breue del dulcissimo nombre de Maria, which is exactly
>> how the Biblioteca Nacional de Espana has done it. Of course, you will add
>> a 246 for the title with uppercase V's.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for asking the question, Joan, and I encourage more questions like
>> these. No need to sweat things out alone!
>>
>>
>>
>> Deborah J. Leslie, MA, MLS | Senior Cataloger, Folger Shakespeare Library
>> | djleslie at folger.edu | 201 East Capitol Street, S.E. | Washington, DC
>> 20003 | 202.675-0369 | orcid.org 0000-0001-5848-5467
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* DCRM-L [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] *On Behalf Of *O'Keefe,
>> Doris
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 16 July, 2019 10:03
>> *To:* DCRM Users' Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [DCRM-L] many, many misnumbered pages
>>
>>
>>
>> Joan,
>>
>>
>>
>> At the American Antiquarian Society our standard note is:
>>
>>
>>
>> Errors in paging: p. 15, 43, 46 misnumbered 51, 45, 47.
>>
>>
>>
>> Eleven is a lot of misnumbered pages! To make the note more concise, if
>> the errors are consecutive we’d note:
>>
>>
>>
>> Errors in paging: p. 15, 43-46 misnumbered 51, 45-48.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>>
>>
>> Doris O’Keefe
>>
>> Senior Cataloger for Rare Books
>>
>> American Antiquarian Society
>>
>> 185 Salisbury Street
>>
>> Worcester, Mass 01609
>>
>> (508) 471-2145
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* DCRM-L [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu
>> <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu>] *On Behalf Of *Joan Milligan
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2019 9:54 AM
>> *To:* DCRM Users' Group
>> *Subject:* [DCRM-L] many, many misnumbered pages
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> I need help in phrasing two notes in a more correct and sleek manner. For
>> the first, I currently I have:
>>
>>           *Eleven pages missing: 62, 87, 235-242, 312.*
>>
>> But, the truth is, the 11 pages are not missing, per se, they are
>> misnumbered. That is, the pagination is, for instance:
>>
>> … 60, 61, 63, 64 …
>>
>> … 233, 234, 243, 244, 245 ...
>>
>>
>>
>> In addition, I have:
>>
>>           *Eleven pages misnumbered: 15, 43, 46, 49, 118, 119, 180, 249,
>> 253, 255, 309. *
>>
>> That is, page 15 says “51”; page 43 says “45”; page 46 says “47”; etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> Should all of this information be in one note?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Joan
>>
>>
>>
>> Joan Milligan
>>
>> Special Collections Cataloger
>>
>> University of Dayton Libraries
>>
>> 300 College Park
>>
>> Dayton, Ohio 45469-1360
>>
>> 937-229-4075
>>
>> jmilligan1 at udayton.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Jessie Sherwood, Ph.D., MLIS
> Associate Librarian
> The Robbins Collection
> UC Berkeley, School of Law
> Tel: 510.643.1236
> jcsherwood at law.berkeley.edu
>
>
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