[DCRM-L] DCRM-L Digest, Vol 216, Issue 33
Linklater, Christina
linklat at fas.harvard.edu
Fri Mar 1 10:03:57 MST 2024
This is a known problem with diacritics in French specifically; not sure why.
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6226011/french-letters-in-android-views-show-question-marks
John Attig is correct: copy and paste is usually the culprit.
CHRISTINA LINKLATER (ling-klater<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL5mjq_syeI>)
she series
Keeper of the Isham Memorial Library and Houghton Music Cataloger
Director, U.S. RISM Office
Houghton Library and Eda Kuhn Loeb Music Library
linklat at fas.harvard.edu
(617) 496-3359 (Isham)
(617) 998-5263 (Houghton)
On-site every day.
Houghton Library
1 Harvard Yard
Cambridge, MA 02138 USA
https://library.harvard.edu/libraries/houghton
Eda Kuhn Loeb Music Library
3 Oxford Street
Cambridge, MA 02138 USA
https://library.harvard.edu/libraries/loeb-music
HARVARD LIBRARY
Champions of Curiosity
library.harvard.edu
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Weird use of a ? in a French atlas statement of
responsibility (Attig, John C)
2. Re: Weird use of a ? in a French atlas statement of
responsibility (Erin Blake)
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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2024 01:04:18 +0000
From: "Attig, John C" <jxa16 at psu.edu>
To: DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Weird use of a ? in a French atlas statement of
responsibility
Message-ID:
<CYYPR02MB980118B5700BA8886A96DD0EA25E2 at CYYPR02MB9801.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
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Amanda:
My suspicion is that the letters displayed as a ? were actually superscript letters on the title page ? and were recorded as such in the MARC record. OCLC uses a question mark for characters that it doesn?t know how to display (i.e., characters not in the MARC character set). This is just one of the joys that occur when a cataloger pastes data into an OCLC record without checking whether all the characters are in fact validly encoded.
John Attig
Penn State, retired.
From: DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> On Behalf Of Sprochi, Amanda K. via DCRM-L
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2024 2:47 PM
To: dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu
Cc: Sprochi, Amanda K. <sprochia at missouri.edu>
Subject: [DCRM-L] Weird use of a ? in a French atlas statement of responsibility
Hi folks:
Came across a weird thing when cataloging an atlas published in France in 1784. It's Nouvel atlas portatif : destine? principalement pour l'instruction de la jeunesse, d'apre?s la ge?ographie moderne de feu l'abbe? Delacroix / par le S. Robert de Vaugondy, ge?ographe ord? du roi, de S.M. Polonoise, Duc de Lorraine et de Bar, et de la Socie?te? Royale des Sciences et Celles Lettres de Nancy, et Censeur Royal.
If you look, yes, you can see the weird random ? after ord, which is an abbreviation of ord[inaire]. At first I couldn't figure out what the heck it was doing there. The title page is engraved so it's not a typesetting error. Then I noticed that other SORs on individual maps in the atlas use the ? as a wildcard for the ends of various words, such as "Geog? ordinaire du Roy &c." or "Par le S. Robert de Vaugondy Geog? ord? du Roi, de S.M. Pol? Duc de Lorr? et de Bar &c." So it seems it's just a generic symbol for "whatever the end of this word is."
Has anyone seen this before or can steer me towards some literature on the subject? It's not mission critical to cataloging the piece but as a long time French student/speaker I've never seen this before and now I'm curious. Thanks!
aks
Amanda K. Sprochi
Librarian IV/Cataloger
60 Ellis Library
The University of Missouri
Columbia, MO 65211
(573) 882-0461
sprochia at missouri.edu<mailto:sprochia at missouri.edu>
she/her/hers
The University of Missouri occupies the
traditional land of the Osage, Kiikaapoi,
Peoria, and O?h?thi ?ak?wi? peoples.
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2024 02:37:11 +0000
From: Erin Blake <EBlake at FOLGER.edu>
To: DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Weird use of a ? in a French atlas statement of
responsibility
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Dear Amanda,
The "?" looks like it's trying to evoke the abbreviations that originated in manuscript culture (and carried over into early printing from moveable type). In this interpretation, the "?" would be a mark of suspension indicating that a truncation occurred: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scribal_abbreviation#Suspension
For others who are curious, here's a scan of the title page: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b550137444/f5.item and here's another example, https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-232145227/view
Erin
From: DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> On Behalf Of Attig, John C via DCRM-L
Sent: Thursday, February 29, 2024 8:04 PM
To: DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
Cc: Attig, John C <jxa16 at psu.edu>
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Weird use of a ? in a French atlas statement of responsibility
Amanda:
My suspicion is that the letters displayed as a ? were actually superscript letters on the title page ? and were recorded as such in the MARC record. OCLC uses a question mark for characters that it doesn?t know how to display (i.e., characters not in the MARC character set). This is just one of the joys that occur when a cataloger pastes data into an OCLC record without checking whether all the characters are in fact validly encoded.
John Attig
Penn State, retired.
From: DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu>> On Behalf Of Sprochi, Amanda K. via DCRM-L
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2024 2:47 PM
To: dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
Cc: Sprochi, Amanda K. <sprochia at missouri.edu<mailto:sprochia at missouri.edu>>
Subject: [DCRM-L] Weird use of a ? in a French atlas statement of responsibility
Hi folks:
Came across a weird thing when cataloging an atlas published in France in 1784. It's Nouvel atlas portatif : destine? principalement pour l'instruction de la jeunesse, d'apre?s la ge?ographie moderne de feu l'abbe? Delacroix / par le S. Robert de Vaugondy, ge?ographe ord? du roi, de S.M. Polonoise, Duc de Lorraine et de Bar, et de la Socie?te? Royale des Sciences et Celles Lettres de Nancy, et Censeur Royal.
If you look, yes, you can see the weird random ? after ord, which is an abbreviation of ord[inaire]. At first I couldn't figure out what the heck it was doing there. The title page is engraved so it's not a typesetting error. Then I noticed that other SORs on individual maps in the atlas use the ? as a wildcard for the ends of various words, such as "Geog? ordinaire du Roy &c." or "Par le S. Robert de Vaugondy Geog? ord? du Roi, de S.M. Pol? Duc de Lorr? et de Bar &c." So it seems it's just a generic symbol for "whatever the end of this word is."
Has anyone seen this before or can steer me towards some literature on the subject? It's not mission critical to cataloging the piece but as a long time French student/speaker I've never seen this before and now I'm curious. Thanks!
aks
Amanda K. Sprochi
Librarian IV/Cataloger
60 Ellis Library
The University of Missouri
Columbia, MO 65211
(573) 882-0461
sprochia at missouri.edu<mailto:sprochia at missouri.edu>
she/her/hers
The University of Missouri occupies the
traditional land of the Osage, Kiikaapoi,
Peoria, and O?h?thi ?ak?wi? peoples.
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