[DCRM-L] Relator terms
Sarah Schmidt Fisher
slsf at UDel.Edu
Thu Dec 7 07:33:21 MST 2006
Kate, we will add this to the MASC topic list and should be able to
discuss relator terms v. relator codes at either Midwinter or Annual 2007.
As long as MASC has come up in conversation, we are meeting jointly with
the Collection Development Discussion Group at Midwinter 2007 on Sunday
January 21 from 10:00 a.m. until noon. I believe our location is the
Renaissance Seattle, in the East Room, of course that could change, so
look for an official announcement on the RBMS list and double check in
your program.
Regards,
Sarah Schmidt Fisher
co-chair, MASC
--
Sarah S. Fisher
Senior Assistant Librarian
Coordinator, Special Collections Cataloging and Processing Unit
Bibliographic Control Dept.
University of Delaware Library
Newark, DE 19717-5267
(302)831-1512
(302)831-1046 (fax)
slsf at udel.edu
Kate Moriarty wrote:
> We're still talking about whether it's causing significant problems.
> Our ILS is III's Millenium and we've indexed $e but not $4, so by
> using $e relator terms for rare materials and $4 relator codes for
> circulating materials it's very easy to see which are the rare ones.
> But, obviously, that's only one of many factors we need to consider.
>
> I would be very interested in a MARC for Special Collections
> Discussion Group topic on the pros and cons of relator terms and codes.
>
> -Kate
>
> nschneider at nypl.org wrote:
>
>> Kate:
>>
>> That said, do you have filing problems with that policy?
>>
>> Maybe we could open this up to one of the MARC for SC discussion topics?
>>
>> Nina
>>
>>
>> +------------------
>> Nina Schneider
>> Librarian
>> Berg Collection of English & American Literature, Room 320
>> The New York Public Library
>> Fifth Avenue and 42nd Street
>> New York, NY 10018-2788
>>
>> Tel.: (212) 642-0111
>> Fax.: (212) 930-0079
>> nschneider at nypl.org
>>
>>
>>
>> Kate
>> Moriarty
>> <moriarks at slu.edu
>>
>> > To
>> Sent by: DCRM Revision Group
>> List dcrm-l-bounces at li
>> <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
>> b.byu.edu cc
>>
>> ejh at grolierclub.org
>>
>> Subject 12/06/2006 02:16 Re: [DCRM-L] Relator
>> terms
>> PM
>>
>>
>> Please respond
>> to DCRM
>> Revision
>> Group List
>>
>> <dcrm-l at lib.byu.e
>>
>> du>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This thread has pointed out a discrepancy in Saint Louis University's
>> cataloging of its rare and circulating materials. For circulating
>> materials, we've been using relator *codes* but only in our local
>> system. For our rare materials we use relator *terms* in OCLC master
>> records. In both cases we apply relators to name and corporate entries.
>> Discussion here at SLU continues...
>>
>> -Kate
>>
>> Randal Brandt wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> And for UC Berkeley as well, although we use relator codes not relator
>>> terms.
>>>
>>> Randy
>>>
>>>
>>> At 11:18 AM 12/5/2006, Ryan Hildebrand wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> This is also true for UC Irvine.
>>>>
>>>> -Ryan
>>>>
>>>> Ryan Hildebrand, Special
>>>> Collections and Archives Cataloger
>>>> UCI Libraries, P.O. Box 19557, University of California, Irvine, CA
>>>> 92623-9557
>>>> Telephone: (949) 824-2263 | Fax: (949)
>>>> 824-2472
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/5/2006 10:20 AM, R. Arvid Nelsen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> UCSD uses relator terms extensively for both personal names and
>>>>> corporate bodies and these are input into the master records at OCLC.
>>>>>
>>>>> ~Arvid Nelsen
>>>>>
>>>>> R. Arvid Nelsen
>>>>> Coord. of Technical Services/Original Cataloger/Classical Studies
>>>>> Librarian
>>>>> University of California, San Diego
>>>>> Mandeville Special Collections Library
>>>>> 9500 Gilman Drive, 0175S
>>>>> La Jolla, CA 92093-0175
>>>>> Phone: 858-534-6766
>>>>> Fax: 858-534-5950
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ejh at grolierclub.org <mailto:ejh at grolierclub.org> 12/05/06
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> 06:05AM >>>
>>>>> The Grolier Club also makes extensive use of relator terms, both for
>>>>> individuals and corporate bodies.
>>>>>
>>>>> At 08:55 AM 12/5/2006, you wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Same for the Folger. Plus the many relators for printers and
>>>>>> booksellers identified as a corporate body, of the "710 2_ Haeredes
>>>>>> Nicolai Bevilaquae, |e printer" variety
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu
>>>>>> <mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> [
>>>>>> mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Hillyard, Brian
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 6:20 AM
>>>>>> To: DCRM Revision Group List
>>>>>> Subject: RE: [DCRM-L] Relator terms
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of the most common uses of relators in 710 must be for
>>>>>> indexing former ownership by institutions (e.g. monastic,
>>>>>> British Museum duplicates, and so on). We would have hundreds
>>>>>> if not thousands of these.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best wishes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *********************************************
>>>>>> Dr Brian Hillyard
>>>>>> Rare Book Collections Manager
>>>>>> National Library of Scotland
>>>>>> George IV Bridge, Edinburgh EH1 1EW
>>>>>> E-mail: b.hillyard at nls.uk <mailto:b.hillyard at nls.uk>
>>>>>> Direct dial: +44 (0)131 623 3889
>>>>>> Fax: +44 (0)131 623 3888
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>>>>> From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu
>>>>>> <mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> [
>>>>>> mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Maxwell
>>>>>> Sent: 05 December 2006 00:10
>>>>>> To: DCRM Revision Group List
>>>>>> Subject: [DCRM-L] Relator terms
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear DCRMers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We seem to be winding down somewhat on the final touches to
>>>>>> DCRM, so I thought I'd introduce another topic entirely :-)
>>>>>> Speaking of which, MANY congratulations and thanks to Manon,
>>>>>> Deborah, and all you others who have contributed so much to this!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As many of you are, we are an RLIN library working on the
>>>>>> transition to OCLC. We've taped our records to OCLC for years
>>>>>> but never cataloged in the system. In order to continue our PCC
>>>>>> BIBCO work we recently applied for and were granted the
>>>>>> appropriate cataloging enhance statuses. However there was a
>>>>>> small glitch. OCLC wanted a set of sample records, and I chose
>>>>>> a variety of BYU original records that were already in OCLC
>>>>>> through our tapeloading. This sample included a few of my own
>>>>>> cataloging records. Although we were given the enhance status
>>>>>> we needed, a few of the records were returned to me with
>>>>>> "problems" circled in red. And these "problems" were all on my
>>>>>> records and they were all instances where I had included
>>>>>> relator terms with added entries :-(
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The OCLC examiners had two issues: (1) LCRI 21.0D supposedly
>>>>>> forbids the use of relator terms, and (2) AACR2 only allows
>>>>>> relators to be used with personal names, not corporate bodies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now the answer to (1) seems fairly straightforward to me--LCRI
>>>>>> 21.0D is explicitly labelled "LC Practice", meaning it need not
>>>>>> apply outside LC (and as a matter of fact I happen to know that
>>>>>> the LC Practice label was added specifically so that BIBCO
>>>>>> catalogers could use relator terms).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The answer to (2) is a little more tricky--frankly I had never
>>>>>> dreamed that we couldn't use "$e printer" or "$e publisher"
>>>>>> after a corporate body (e.g. Arion Press, $e printer or Book
>>>>>> Club of California, $e publisher), but now that it has been
>>>>>> pointed out to me 21.0D does in fact say "In the cases noted
>>>>>> below, add [a] ... designation of function to an added entry
>>>>>> for a person". (MARC documentation certainly allows for use of
>>>>>> relators terms in 710 fields.) I was told by someone at LC that
>>>>>> it had been recently proposed to JSC to correct this and add
>>>>>> corporate bodies to the rule but it had been withdrawn pending
>>>>>> RDA, but I don't remember anything about such a proposal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As the new kid on the block I don't really want to get a
>>>>>> reputation for belligerency (and in fact I really don't WANT to
>>>>>> be belligerent!) but I do want to clarify this and so I intend
>>>>>> to bring it up with the person who examined our records, but
>>>>>> after I've consulted you folks. It does seem to me that relator
>>>>>> terms add quite a bit of value to entries, especially
>>>>>> considering FRBR's emphasis on clarifying the relationships
>>>>>> between entities (e.g. between persons or corporate bodies and
>>>>>> works, expressions, manifestations, or items). They are also
>>>>>> essential to the indexing in our catalog. I am talking about
>>>>>> relator terms, not codes, by the way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd be interested in your thoughts, on two fronts: (1) I have
>>>>>> been assuming that most of the rare cataloging community does
>>>>>> use relator terms in their work, but I could be wrong--so I'd
>>>>>> be interested in hearing what your practice is (including do
>>>>>> you use them with corporate bodies, and does your library use
>>>>>> them outside special collections cataloging); and (2) those of
>>>>>> you who are experienced OCLC catalogers, including enhance
>>>>>> libraries, do you use them in OCLC master records? I suppose
>>>>>> one could enhance or create the master record and then add
>>>>>> relators to the local record but that does seem a bit a shame
>>>>>> to me ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And of course anything else you have to say about this issue
>>>>>> would be of great interest. And any other tips on becoming a
>>>>>> successful OCLC cataloging entity!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert L. Maxwell
>>>>>> Special Collections and Ancient Languages Catalog Librarian
>>>>>> Genre/Form Authorities Librarian
>>>>>> 6728 Harold B. Lee Library
>>>>>> Brigham Young University
>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602
>>>>>> (801)422-5568
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> *******************************************************************
>>
>>
>>>>>> Visit the National Library of Scotland online at www.nls.uk
>>>>>> <http://www.nls.uk/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> *******************************************************************
>>
>>
>>>>>> This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you
>>>>>> are not the intended recipient, please notify the ICT Helpdesk on
>>>>>> +44 131 623 3700 or ict at nls.uk <mailto:ict at nls.uk> and delete
>>>>>> this e-mail. The
>>>>>> statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>> author and do not necessarily reflect those of the National
>>>>>> Library of
>>>>>> Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998
>>>>>> and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002 and has been
>>>>>> scanned by MessageLabs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> *******************************************************************
>>
>>
>>>>> Eric Holzenberg
>>>>> Director
>>>>> The Grolier Club
>>>>> 47 East 60th Street
>>>>> New York, NY 10022
>>>>> phone: 212/838-6690
>>>>> fax: 212/838-2445
>>>>> e-mail: ejh at grolierclub.org <mailto:ejh at grolierclub.org>
>>>>> website: www.grolierclub.org <http://www.grolierclub.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ryan Hildebrand, Special Collections and Archives Cataloger
>>>> UCI Libraries, P.O. Box 19557, University of California, Irvine, CA
>>>> 92623-9557
>>>> Telephone: (949) 824-2263 | Fax: (949)
>>>> 824-2472
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________
>>> Randal Brandt
>>> Principal Cataloger
>>> The Bancroft Library
>>> (510) 643-2275
>>> rbrandt at library.berkeley.edu
>>> http://bancroft.berkeley.edu
>>> <http://bancroft.berkeley.edu/>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kate S. Moriarty
>> Rare Book Catalog Librarian
>> Pius XII Memorial Library
>> Saint Louis University
>> 3650 Lindell Blvd.
>> St. Louis, MO 63108
>> Phone: (314) 977-3098
>> moriarks at slu.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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