[DCRM-L] Citing the new ESTC

Mon Oct 16 07:37:37 MDT 2006

I'm not sure that Brian is recommending that we drop all qualifications.
Are you, Brian? I've already written that I don't think a global change
in anyone's database from ESTC (RLIN) to ESTC (BL) would be appropriate.
My understanding of that qualification in the 510 is that it records
where or in which edition the cataloger found the citation, not where or
in which edition someone else could find it now. 

Of course, we aren't the authors of Standard Citations, and Barbara
Tillett is tied up with the JSC meetings which began an hour ago at the
Library of Congress. It might be nice, although not necessary, for the
DCRM user community to come up with a consensus or majority opinion.
Even more important would be for us to hash out the issues, so that when
Barbara and Elizabeth Robinson and I discuss this, we have a good handle
on the various issues and opinions.

I, too, am full of admiration for all the effort that has gone into the
final proofreading of DCRM(B). [Append mental picture of me blowing
kisses] 

Deborah

__________________________________________ 
Deborah J. Leslie, M.A., M.L.S.
Chair, RBMS Bibliographic Standards Committee
http://www.folger.edu/bsc/index.html
Head of Cataloging, Folger Shakespeare Library
201 East Capitol St., S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003
djleslie at folger.edu || 202.675-0369 || http://www.folger.edu 

-----Original Message-----
From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On
Behalf Of Jane Gillis
Sent: 16 October 2006 08:44
To: DCRM Revision Group List; DCRM Revision Group List
Subject: RE: [DCRM-L] Citing the new ESTC

I agree with Brian.  This may not be the last change in how we access
the ESTC.  We already have at least 3--RLIN, BL and STAR.  As Deborah
wrote, numbers are not static, so we really would need to put the date
accessed.  What about all the ESTC (RLIN) citations that are now wrong?
ESTC is much simpler not only for inputting but for searching. 

Jane

At 11:42 AM 10/16/2006 Monday+0100, Hillyard, Brian wrote:

But I don't see that you could do a global change from ESTC (RLIN) to
ESTC (BL) [or whatever] because that ignores the principle that the
reference is correct only at the time when book and record are compared.

Mirroring the CD-ROM and microfiche citations, the only satisfactory
citation would be one giving the date when the book/record comparison
was made ....  The advantage of specifying the resource would be as a
rough way of indicating how long ago the reference was made.  But are
most users going to have the background knowledge?  (If this is the
intention, Standard Citation Forms should give dates for BLAISE, RLIN,
etc. versions, which it doesn't.)  

Is it worth using anything other than unqualified "ESTC", at least for
the online resources?  I don't know what archiving is in place, but I
doubt that in most cases it would be possible to establish what the
record was at the time.

By the way, if we are prepared to do global changes from ESTC(RLIN) to
ESTC(BL), is there any significance in these qualifications?  All we're
really doing is telling our users where they can find these.  In that
case it would be much better to stick to unqualified "ESTC" and thus
avoid misleading users who see records with out-of-date qualifications.

By the way, I'm full of admiration at all the effort that has gone into
the final proofing of DCRM(B).

Best wishes

Brian

********************************************
Dr Brian Hillyard
Rare Book Collections Manager
National Library of Scotland
George IV Bridge, Edinburgh, EH1 1EW
b.hillyard at nls.uk
Tel: 0131-623 3889 (direct dial)
Tel: 0131-623 3700 (main switchboard)
Fax: 0131-623 3888

-----Original Message-----
From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [ mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu
<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> ]On
Behalf Of Robert Maxwell
Sent: 13 October 2006 23:48
To: DCRM Revision Group List
Subject: RE: [DCRM-L] Citing the new ESTC

ESTC (BL) makes sense to me. 

I do understand why the delivery system is being specified, but at the
same time I wonder how important it really is. Will the numbering system
differ between the systems? I assume not. Do we want our catalogs to
have both "ESTC (RLIN)" and "ESTC (BL)" in them? Particularly since one
is a replacement for the other, which is permanently going away? Just
thinking to myself. When the time comes we'll probably globally change
all our ESTC (RLIN) references to ESTC (BL) (or whatever folks agree on
is the new standard citation).

Bob

Robert L. Maxwell
Special Collections and Ancient Languages Catalog Librarian
Genre/Form Authorities Librarian
6728 Harold B. Lee Library
Brigham Young University
Provo, UT 84602
(801)422-5568  

>-----Original Message-----
>From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu 
>[ mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu <mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu>
] On Behalf Of Deborah J. Leslie
>Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 2:25 PM
>To: DCRM Revision Group List
>Subject: [DCRM-L] Citing the new ESTC
>
>Dear colleagues,
>
>As you all know, the public ESTC is moving in a couple of 
>weeks to a freely-available web site on the British Library server. 
>
>Since the ESTC exists in a number of different forms and 
>delivery systems, the principles for formulating standard 
>citations requires that the delivery system also be specified. 
>When making 510's for the ESTC, I propose we cite it as ESTC 
>(BL), unless anyone has a better idea.
>
>There is also another question, which is, for those of us with 
>access to the master STAR database, how do we cite that? 
>(Juliet, are you listening?) 
>______________________________________________________
>Deborah J. Leslie, M.A., M.L.S.
>Chair, RBMS Bibliographic Standards Committee
>Head of Cataloging, Folger Shakespeare Library
>201 East Capitol St., S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003
>djleslie at folger.edu  |  202.675-0369  |  http://www.folger.edu 
>
>
>

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Jane Gillis | Rare Book Cataloger|  Sterling Memorial Library
Yale University | New Haven CT  06520
(203)432-2633 (voice) | (203)432-4047 (fax) | jane.gillis at yale.edu

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