[DCRM-L] DCRM-L Digest, Vol 26, Issue 3 collational oddity
Karpuk, Susan
susan.karpuk at yale.edu
Fri Apr 18 12:24:56 MDT 2008
Randy,
My wording would be: Leaves of each signature signed successively, as in signature A: A, A3, A5.
Susan
Susan Karpuk
Catalog Librarian for Operations
Yale Law Library
127 Wall St.
New Haven CT 06511
susan.karpuk at yale.edu
203 432-2512
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Today's Topics:
1. A collational oddity (Randal Brandt)
2. Re: A collational oddity (Margaret Nichols)
3. Re: A collational oddity (Noble, Richard)
4. Re: A collational oddity (Randal Brandt)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:52:54 -0700
From: Randal Brandt <rbrandt at library.berkeley.edu>
Subject: [DCRM-L] A collational oddity
To: DCRM-L <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
Message-ID: <4807D4C6.8000700 at library.berkeley.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I have a book on my desk that is odd in many ways (it is a previously
unrecorded 1780 edition of Rousseau's Du contrat social), but the one
that has me stumped is the way that the gatherings are signed. It is a
12mo in 6s, with the first 3 leaves of each gathering signed, the last 3
leaves unsigned. But, instead of the usual "A, A2, A3" pattern, the
signatures are numbered as if they are page numbers, i.e. A, A3, A5; B,
B3, B5, etc. With the exception of a couple of typographical errors,
this pattern holds throughout the entire volume. The signatures note in
my catalog record is a pretty straight-forward "A-Z[superscript 6]
2A[superscript 4], but that doesn't tell the whole story.
Would any of you include information about the odd signing pattern? If
so, how would you do it? Bowers and Gaskell have, so far, been unhelpful.
Thanks,
Randy (yes, I do still, occasionally, get to catalog these days ...)
--
__________________________
Randal Brandt
Principal Cataloger
The Bancroft Library
(510) 643-2275
rbrandt at library.berkeley.edu
http://bancroft.berkeley.edu
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 10:14:59 -0400
From: Margaret Nichols <mnr1 at cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] A collational oddity
To: DCRM Revision Group List <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
Message-ID:
<6.2.3.4.2.20080418090103.034d9260 at postoffice7.mail.cornell.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Randy et al.,
Yes, I would definitely note the odd signing pattern, in a 500 note.
Not sure how I'd word it--let's see:
Leaves signed using alternate numbers, e.g. A, A3, A5 in succession
in gathering A.
That's awfully awkward, but maybe someone else can improve on it--
Cheers,
Margaret
At 06:52 PM 4/17/2008, you wrote:
>I have a book on my desk that is odd in many ways (it is a
>previously unrecorded 1780 edition of Rousseau's Du contrat social),
>but the one that has me stumped is the way that the gatherings are
>signed. It is a 12mo in 6s, with the first 3 leaves of each
>gathering signed, the last 3 leaves unsigned. But, instead of the
>usual "A, A2, A3" pattern, the signatures are numbered as if they
>are page numbers, i.e. A, A3, A5; B, B3, B5, etc. With the exception
>of a couple of typographical errors, this pattern holds throughout
>the entire volume. The signatures note in my catalog record is a
>pretty straight-forward "A-Z[superscript 6] 2A[superscript 4], but
>that doesn't tell the whole story.
>
>Would any of you include information about the odd signing pattern?
>If so, how would you do it? Bowers and Gaskell have, so far, been unhelpful.
>
>Thanks,
>Randy (yes, I do still, occasionally, get to catalog these days ...)
>
>--
>__________________________
>Randal Brandt
>Principal Cataloger
>The Bancroft Library
>(510) 643-2275
>rbrandt at library.berkeley.edu
>http://bancroft.berkeley.edu
________________________________
Margaret Nichols
Head, Special Materials Unit
Library Technical Services
110 Olin Library
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY. 14853-5301
mnr1 at cornell.edu * Tel. (607) 255-5752 / 255-3530 * Fax (607) 255-9524
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 12:09:41 -0400
From: "Noble, Richard" <Richard_Noble at brown.edu>
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] A collational oddity
To: "DCRM Revision Group List" <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
Message-ID:
<767854D3A46D0447987E26E8000A57B503972359 at MAIL1.AD.Brown.Edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I routinely give collation notes (an option in dcrmb), and would write
e.g. (making a few assumptions, since we haven't got a copy of this
book, oddly enough):
12mo: A-Z^6 2A^4 [$3 (-2A3) signed; signing $2,$3 as '$3','$5';
missigning ...]; 142 leaves, pp. ...
following RBS DesBib conventions per Bowers. When I'm feeling less
ambitious I head the note "Signatures:" rather than "Collation:",
leaving out the pagination but still usually including the signing
statement. If the style of your cataloging doesn't assume familiarity
with Bowers formulae (especially the $ variable), you could say
something on the order of "2nd and 3rd leaves of each gathering signed
e.g. A3 and A5 throughout".
"Previously unrecorded"--that makes a cataloger's day, doesn't it...
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On
Behalf Of Margaret Nichols
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:15 AM
To: DCRM Revision Group List
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] A collational oddity
Randy et al.,
Yes, I would definitely note the odd signing pattern, in a 500 note.
Not sure how I'd word it--let's see:
Leaves signed using alternate numbers, e.g. A, A3, A5 in succession
in gathering A.
That's awfully awkward, but maybe someone else can improve on it--
Cheers,
Margaret
At 06:52 PM 4/17/2008, you wrote:
>I have a book on my desk that is odd in many ways (it is a
>previously unrecorded 1780 edition of Rousseau's Du contrat social),
>but the one that has me stumped is the way that the gatherings are
>signed. It is a 12mo in 6s, with the first 3 leaves of each
>gathering signed, the last 3 leaves unsigned. But, instead of the
>usual "A, A2, A3" pattern, the signatures are numbered as if they
>are page numbers, i.e. A, A3, A5; B, B3, B5, etc. With the exception
>of a couple of typographical errors, this pattern holds throughout
>the entire volume. The signatures note in my catalog record is a
>pretty straight-forward "A-Z[superscript 6] 2A[superscript 4], but
>that doesn't tell the whole story.
>
>Would any of you include information about the odd signing pattern?
>If so, how would you do it? Bowers and Gaskell have, so far, been
unhelpful.
>
>Thanks,
>Randy (yes, I do still, occasionally, get to catalog these days ...)
>
>--
>__________________________
>Randal Brandt
>Principal Cataloger
>The Bancroft Library
>(510) 643-2275
>rbrandt at library.berkeley.edu
>http://bancroft.berkeley.edu
________________________________
Margaret Nichols
Head, Special Materials Unit
Library Technical Services
110 Olin Library
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY. 14853-5301
mnr1 at cornell.edu * Tel. (607) 255-5752 / 255-3530 * Fax (607)
255-9524
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:35:52 -0700
From: Randal Brandt <rbrandt at library.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] A collational oddity
To: DCRM Revision Group List <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
Message-ID: <4808CDE8.9040801 at library.berkeley.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks, Richard. This gives me something to work with. When I am feeling
more ambitious (and when the volume in question warrants the extra
work), I include statements of signing, usually following Gaskell. But,
I will look more closely at Bowers, too.
And, by "previously unrecorded," I mean that it does not appear in
Rousseau bibliographies (Dufour, S?nelier, Leigh), OCLC, BnF, or KB
(Amsterdam imprint, although probably a piracy). Yes, that made my day, too.
Randy
Noble, Richard wrote:
> I routinely give collation notes (an option in dcrmb), and would write
> e.g. (making a few assumptions, since we haven't got a copy of this
> book, oddly enough):
>
> 12mo: A-Z^6 2A^4 [$3 (-2A3) signed; signing $2,$3 as '$3','$5';
> missigning ...]; 142 leaves, pp. ...
>
> following RBS DesBib conventions per Bowers. When I'm feeling less
> ambitious I head the note "Signatures:" rather than "Collation:",
> leaving out the pagination but still usually including the signing
> statement. If the style of your cataloging doesn't assume familiarity
> with Bowers formulae (especially the $ variable), you could say
> something on the order of "2nd and 3rd leaves of each gathering signed
> e.g. A3 and A5 throughout".
>
> "Previously unrecorded"--that makes a cataloger's day, doesn't it...
>
> Richard
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On
> Behalf Of Margaret Nichols
> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:15 AM
> To: DCRM Revision Group List
> Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] A collational oddity
>
>
> Randy et al.,
>
> Yes, I would definitely note the odd signing pattern, in a 500 note.
> Not sure how I'd word it--let's see:
>
> Leaves signed using alternate numbers, e.g. A, A3, A5 in succession
> in gathering A.
>
> That's awfully awkward, but maybe someone else can improve on it--
>
> Cheers,
>
> Margaret
>
>
>
> At 06:52 PM 4/17/2008, you wrote:
>
>> I have a book on my desk that is odd in many ways (it is a
>> previously unrecorded 1780 edition of Rousseau's Du contrat social),
>> but the one that has me stumped is the way that the gatherings are
>> signed. It is a 12mo in 6s, with the first 3 leaves of each
>> gathering signed, the last 3 leaves unsigned. But, instead of the
>> usual "A, A2, A3" pattern, the signatures are numbered as if they
>> are page numbers, i.e. A, A3, A5; B, B3, B5, etc. With the exception
>> of a couple of typographical errors, this pattern holds throughout
>> the entire volume. The signatures note in my catalog record is a
>> pretty straight-forward "A-Z[superscript 6] 2A[superscript 4], but
>> that doesn't tell the whole story.
>>
>> Would any of you include information about the odd signing pattern?
>> If so, how would you do it? Bowers and Gaskell have, so far, been
>>
> unhelpful.
>
>> Thanks,
>> Randy (yes, I do still, occasionally, get to catalog these days ...)
>>
>> --
>> __________________________
>> Randal Brandt
>> Principal Cataloger
>> The Bancroft Library
>> (510) 643-2275
>> rbrandt at library.berkeley.edu
>> http://bancroft.berkeley.edu
>>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Margaret Nichols
> Head, Special Materials Unit
> Library Technical Services
> 110 Olin Library
> Cornell University
> Ithaca, NY. 14853-5301
> mnr1 at cornell.edu * Tel. (607) 255-5752 / 255-3530 * Fax (607)
> 255-9524
>
>
>
>
>
--
__________________________
Randal Brandt
Principal Cataloger
The Bancroft Library
(510) 643-2275
rbrandt at library.berkeley.edu
http://bancroft.berkeley.edu
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