[DCRM-L] Signature question

[Noble, Richard]

I suspect that each 4-leaf unit is an octavo half sheet, which accords
with the vertical chainlines and the watermarks noted by Larry.
Work-and-turn in that case, efficient and easy on the supply of type in
that you can turn the heap over and perfect straightaway from a single
forme kept on the press. (I'd assume that a New World printer would have
a standard press, but perhaps be a little short of type.) The OCLC
record (28054815) measures it at 15 cm., which would work out to pot
paper. Cheap all around.

 

I can see why John might call the gathering A, but I guess I'm a bit of
a purist or something, since the A is inferred, and doesn't designate
the gathering, but only the outermost of its three constituent (I think)
half sheets. In odd cases where, say, 12mo offcuts were consistently
assigned a succeeding signature letter, I've suggested something like
A/B-G/H^12, which accounts for the serial aspect of the signatures; but
with a single gathering I still incline to treating the lettering of the
half sheets for quiring as analogous to numeration for folding without a
signature. It doesn't matter all that much, if you get the structure
right. I was just looking for a principle that would hold up in even
crankier circumstances.

 

Larry-will you be able to correct the OCLC record? At this point the
signatures are given as [A]^2 B^2 C^8. We have a microfilm of this book,
but not the real thing, so of course I can't touch the book record.

 

Richard

 

From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On
Behalf Of John Lancaster
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 1:59 PM
To: DCRM Revision Group List
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Signature question

 

This may be a case of printing on half-sheets (i.e. cut before printing)
with quarto imposition.  That would account for both the signing and the
watermark evidence.  Perhaps Richard can shed more light on this
possibility.

I suppose it's possible that this is a long 12mo (cf. Gaskell's figure
54, with cutting rather than folding, and paging adjusted
correspondingly), but the watermark evidence suggests otherwise, though
without knowing more about the position of the watermarks and their
relationship from leaf to leaf, it's hard to be sure.

In any case, though, as Richard has said, it's a gathering of 12 leaves;
whatever designation you decide to use (I'd be inclined toward [A]), the
work would be described as [A]^12, with [A]3 and [A]5 signed 'B' and
'C', respectively.

John Lancaster

On Apr 21, 2010, at 6:48 PM, Laurence Creider wrote:




Folks,

	I am cataloging Commemorationes, seu, Suffragia sanctorum
Ordinis minorum S.P.N. Francisci .... Mexici :ex Typographia matritensi
in via S. Dominici & Tacubae, [17--]. [24] p. ; 15 cm.

	 

	Medina  8973

	 

	The pages are unnumbered and the only leaves signed are B1 and
C1.

	In addition to 1 later blank leaf, conjugate with blank leaf at
end the item consists of leaf [1] conjugate with leaf [12], so what
appears to be [A1].[C8]

	leaf [2] conjugate with [11] [A2].[C7]

	leaf [3]  conjugate with 10   B1.[C6]

	leaf [4] conjugate with 9    [B2].[C5]

	leaf [5] conjugate with 8    C1.[C4]

	leaf [6] conjugate with 7    [C2].[C3]--stiching through here.

	 

	I've looked at Gaskell's diagrams and nothing seems to fit.  The
closest patterns are those for 12mos, esp. fig. 56.  There appear to be
water marks on leaves B1 through [C5] or [C6], which does not make sense
and the chainlines are vertical.  I am sure I am missing something
obvious (my visual imagination is not good), so can somebody help?

	 

	Thanks,

	Larry

	 

	Laurence S. Creider

	Special Collections Librarian

	New Mexico State University

	Las Cruces, NM  88003

	Work: 575-646-7227

	Fax: 575-646-7477

	lcreider at lib.nmsu.edu

 

On Apr 21, 2010, at 6:48 PM, Laurence Creider wrote:





Folks,
I am cataloging Commemorationes, seu, Suffragia sanctorum Ordinis
minorum S.P.N. Francisci .... Mexici :ex Typographia matritensi in via
S. Dominici & Tacubae, [17--]. [24] p. ; 15 cm.

Medina  8973

The pages are unnumbered and the only leaves signed are B1 and C1.
In addition to 1 later blank leaf, conjugate with blank leaf at end the
item consists of leaf [1] conjugate with leaf [12], so what appears to
be [A1].[C8]
leaf [2] conjugate with [11] [A2].[C7]
leaf [3]  conjugate with 10   B1.[C6]
leaf [4] conjugate with 9    [B2].[C5]
leaf [5] conjugate with 8    C1.[C4]
leaf [6] conjugate with 7    [C2].[C3]--stiching through here.

I've looked at Gaskell's diagrams and nothing seems to fit.  The closest
patterns are those for 12mos, esp. fig. 56.  There appear to be water
marks on leaves B1 through [C5] or [C6], which does not make sense and
the chainlines are vertical.  I am sure I am missing something obvious
(my visual imagination is not good), so can somebody help?

Thanks,
Larry

Laurence S. Creider
Special Collections Librarian
New Mexico State University
Las Cruces, NM  88003
Work: 575-646-7227
Fax: 575-646-7477
lcreider at lib.nmsu.edu

 

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