[DCRM-L] Australian cities in field 752

Wed Dec 7 14:14:01 MST 2011

Well, the ignorance on parade is mine, it seems. It's how I train catalogers to figure out how to formulate the 752. Notice, however, the careful wording: being guided by the form in the 781 isn't the same as blindly following the form in the 781; I simply specify that for the U.S., U.K., and Canada (and now Australia), the country name goes in 752‡a.

In the early days of the 752, many of us used to enter the British constituent country first. There was a MASC discussion about the practice some years ago--initiated by Henry Raine?--and a common consensus emerged that it's much better to start the 752 with the country. Reference to the 781 in practice is both a convenient way to provide authority for formulating the 752, as well as help in complicated situations.

Deborah J. Leslie, M.A., M.L.S. | Head of Cataloging, Folger Shakespeare Library | 201 East Capitol St., S.E. | Washington, D.C. 20003
djleslie at folger.edu<mailto:djleslie at folger.edu> | 202.675-0369 | http://www.folger.edu<http://www.folger.edu/>

From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Noble, Richard
Sent: Wednesday, 07 December 2011 10:14
To: DCRM Revision Group List
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Australian cities in field 752

Ignorance on parade: Where is the instruction "to be guided by the form in the 781"?

The problem is, of course, that the 781 form will be constrained by the limitation to two z subfields in indirect subdivision, which is certainly not in the exuberantly expansive spirit of the 752 field as exemplified in the MARC21 examples.

BTW: I've noticed that 781s treat England as first-order, while the BL (being British, and having no patience for English nationalism?) enters e.g. "Great Britain $b England $d London". I suppose the NLS approaches Scotland rather differently--I'll have a look.

RICHARD NOBLE : RARE BOOKS CATALOGER : JOHN HAY LIBRARY : BROWN UNIVERSITY
PROVIDENCE, RI 02912 : 401-863-1187/FAX 863-3384 : RICHARD_NOBLE at BROWN.EDU<mailto:RICHARD_NOBLE at BROWN.EDU>

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Deborah J. Leslie <DJLeslie at folger.edu<mailto:DJLeslie at folger.edu>> wrote:
Thanks, all. It does make the most sense, but it does make instructing new catalogers more difficult, because now there's an Australian exception to "be guided by the form in the 781."

From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu>] On Behalf Of Margaret F Nichols
Sent: Tuesday, 06 December 2011 17:32

To: DCRM Revision Group List
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Australian cities in field 752

I vote for that form, too, for the reasons Bob mentions.

Margaret

Margaret F. Nichols
Rare Materials Cataloging Coordinator
Cataloging & Metadata Services in RMC
2B Kroch Library
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY 14853-5302
Tel. (607) 255-3530<tel:%28607%29%20255-3530> * Fax (607) 255-9524<tel:%28607%29%20255-9524>
E-mail mnr1 at cornell.edu<mailto:mnr1 at cornell.edu>

From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu>] On Behalf Of Randal Brandt
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 4:05 PM
To: dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Australian cities in field 752

I second Bob's vote. I took a look at our catalog and, alas, we've been inconsistent. But, recent records have the subfield a-b-d construction.

Randy

On 12/6/2011 11:48 AM, Robert Maxwell wrote:
I vote for

752 Australia ‡b Victoria ‡d Melbourne.

It’s consistent with the way you (and we) treat other countries such as the U.S. and not dependent on the vagaries of LC subject subdivision practice.

Robert L. Maxwell
Special Collections and Ancient Languages Catalog Librarian
Genre/Form Authorities Librarian
6728 Harold B. Lee Library
Brigham Young University
Provo, UT 84602
(801)422-5568<tel:%28801%29422-5568>

"We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine ourselves to the course which has been heretofore pursued"--Eliza R. Snow, 1842.

From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Deborah J. Leslie
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 12:03 PM
To: 'DCRM Revision Group List'
Subject: [DCRM-L] Australian cities in field 752

We are adding 752's to all our editions of Shakespeare, and I'm a little perplexed on how to render Australian cities in hierarchical form. Australia is treated strangely in AACR2, because the cities are qualified by the state instead of the country, but in subdivisions, Australia comes first: from the NAR for Melbourne:

151  Melbourne (Vic.)
781 0ǂz Australia ǂz Melbourne (Vic.)

Contrast this to the NAR for San Francisco, which goes straight into first order political division:
151  San Francisco (Calif.)
781 0ǂz California ǂz San Francisco

Or for Heidelberg, with no intervening state or province:
151  Hamburg (Germany)
781 0ǂz Germany ǂz Hamburg

As do many institutions, we use the country name even for countries that are subdivided and qualified by their first order political division:
752 United States ‡b California ‡d San Francisco.

Given all this, what makes most sense?:

752 Australia ǂb Melbourne (Vic.)
or
752 Australia ‡b Victoria ‡d Melbourne.

Deborah J. Leslie, M.A., M.L.S. | Head of Cataloging, Folger Shakespeare Library | 201 East Capitol St., S.E. | Washington, D.C. 20003
djleslie at folger.edu<mailto:djleslie at folger.edu> | 202.675-0369<tel:202.675-0369> | http://www.folger.edu<http://www.folger.edu/>

--

__________________________

Randal Brandt

Principal Cataloger

The Bancroft Library

(510) 643-2275<tel:%28510%29%20643-2275>

rbrandt at library.berkeley.edu<mailto:rbrandt at library.berkeley.edu>

http://bancroft.berkeley.edu

"It's hard enough to remember my opinions without

remembering my reasons for them"--The Streets.

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