[DCRM-L] Australian cities in field 752

[Noble, Richard]

Ignorance on parade: Where is the instruction "to be guided by the form in
the 781"?

The problem is, of course, that the 781 form will be constrained by the
limitation to two z subfields in indirect subdivision, which is certainly
not in the exuberantly expansive spirit of the 752 field as exemplified in
the MARC21 examples.

BTW: I've noticed that 781s treat England as first-order, while the BL
(being British, and having no patience for English nationalism?) enters
e.g. "Great Britain $b England $d London". I suppose the NLS approaches
Scotland rather differently--I'll have a look.

RICHARD NOBLE : RARE BOOKS CATALOGER : JOHN HAY LIBRARY : BROWN UNIVERSITY
PROVIDENCE, RI 02912 : 401-863-1187/FAX 863-3384 : RICHARD_NOBLE at BROWN.EDU


On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Deborah J. Leslie <DJLeslie at folger.edu>wrote:

>  Thanks, all. It does make the most sense, but it does make instructing
> new catalogers more difficult, because now there's an Australian exception
> to "be guided by the form in the 781."****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] *On
> Behalf Of *Margaret F Nichols
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 06 December 2011 17:32
>
> *To:* DCRM Revision Group List
> *Subject:* Re: [DCRM-L] Australian cities in field 752****
>
>  ** **
>
> I vote for that form, too, for the reasons Bob mentions.****
>
> ** **
>
> Margaret****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Margaret F. Nichols****
>
> Rare Materials Cataloging Coordinator****
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> Cataloging & Metadata Services in RMC****
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> 2B Kroch Library****
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> *From:* dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] *On
> Behalf Of *Randal Brandt
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 06, 2011 4:05 PM
> *To:* dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [DCRM-L] Australian cities in field 752****
>
> ** **
>
> I second Bob's vote. I took a look at our catalog and, alas, we've been
> inconsistent. But, recent records have the subfield a-b-d construction.
>
> Randy
>
> On 12/6/2011 11:48 AM, Robert Maxwell wrote: ****
>
> I vote for****
>
>  ****
>
> 752 Australia ‡b Victoria ‡d Melbourne.****
>
>  ****
>
> It’s consistent with the way you (and we) treat other countries such as
> the U.S. and not dependent on the vagaries of LC subject subdivision
> practice.****
>
>  ****
>
> Robert L. Maxwell****
>
> Special Collections and Ancient Languages Catalog Librarian****
>
> Genre/Form Authorities Librarian****
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> 6728 Harold B. Lee Library****
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> Brigham Young University****
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> Provo, UT 84602****
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> (801)422-5568 ****
>
>  ****
>
> "We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine ourselves
> to the course which has been heretofore pursued"--Eliza R. Snow, 1842.****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu>]
> *On Behalf Of *Deborah J. Leslie
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 06, 2011 12:03 PM
> *To:* 'DCRM Revision Group List'
> *Subject:* [DCRM-L] Australian cities in field 752****
>
>  ****
>
> We are adding 752's to all our editions of Shakespeare, and I'm a little
> perplexed on how to render Australian cities in hierarchical form.
> Australia is treated strangely in AACR2, because the cities are qualified
> by the state instead of the country, but in subdivisions, Australia comes
> first: from the NAR for Melbourne:****
>
>  ****
>
> 151  Melbourne (Vic.) ****
>
> 781 0ǂz Australia ǂz Melbourne (Vic.)****
>
>  ****
>
> Contrast this to the NAR for San Francisco, which goes straight into first
> order political division:****
>
> 151  San Francisco (Calif.)****
>
> 781 0ǂz California ǂz San Francisco****
>
>  ****
>
> Or for Heidelberg, with no intervening state or province:****
>
> 151  Hamburg (Germany)****
>
> 781 0ǂz Germany ǂz Hamburg****
>
>  ****
>
> As do many institutions, we use the country name even for countries that
> are subdivided and qualified by their first order political division:****
>
> 752 United States ‡b California ‡d San Francisco. ****
>
>  ****
>
> Given all this, what makes most sense?:****
>
>  ****
>
> 752 Australia ǂb Melbourne (Vic.)****
>
> or ****
>
> 752 Australia ‡b Victoria ‡d Melbourne.****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> Deborah J. Leslie, M.A., M.L.S. | Head of Cataloging, Folger Shakespeare
> Library | 201 East Capitol St., S.E. | Washington, D.C. 20003
> djleslie at folger.edu | 202.675-0369 | http://www.folger.edu  ****
>
>  ****
>
> ** **
>
> -- ****
>
> __________________________****
>
> Randal Brandt****
>
> Principal Cataloger****
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> The Bancroft Library****
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> (510) 643-2275****
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> rbrandt at library.berkeley.edu****
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> http://bancroft.berkeley.edu****
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> "It's hard enough to remember my opinions without ****
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> remembering my reasons for them"--The Streets.****
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>
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