[DCRM-L] T.p. verso, unabbreviated

[Noble, Richard]

It's a hard balance to strike. In general, whatever information one might
want to convey about matter on the verso of title leaf (e.g.) would be of
interest only to those who have enough knowledge of books to know what a
leaf is. Then again, "reverse" is much the same thing: a rather Latinate
way of referring to the "turn" of the leaf. Then again again, couldn't
"reverse of the title" be taken to mean "the title, backwards" (*à la* "Paul
is dead" ...)?

Once we start getting too far away from the descriptive vocabulary proper
to the things we're describing we begin to make the description harder to
read for those who know the proper terms (with the underlying thought,
"Does the cataloger know enough to be describing this correctly?"), and
more and more awkwardly and needlessly long and periphrastic for everybody.
(The prime disaster area in this respect, so far, is the 300 field.)

Obiter dicta: For our own purposes, with respect to the general tendency of
RDA (which has its own logic of data distribution, as opposed to
description), I think we RB types would be better off creating
straightforward RDA records with whatever vocabulary is deemed least
esoteric, along with extensive supplemental descriptive notes: exact
transcriptions (*without* transposition, and perhaps without interpolated
element punctuation) of title, edition, imprint and date etc., full
collation formulae with comprehensive pagination statements, using the
standard abbreviations (RBS Des Bib house style), etc. For communication
purposes, transcriptions retain their value, though links to images are a
highly valuable adjunct, as I've learned from working especially with
German databases. We can't, at this rate, go on chopping all this stuff up
and expect it to reassemble itself as coherent description. In sum, we need
data *here*, and bibliographical description *there*.

RICHARD NOBLE : RARE BOOKS CATALOGER : JOHN HAY LIBRARY : BROWN UNIVERSITY
PROVIDENCE, RI 02912 : 401-863-1187/FAX 863-3384 : RICHARD_NOBLE at BROWN.EDU


On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 10:40 AM, Dooley,Jackie <dooleyj at oclc.org> wrote:

> How broad a swath of humanity do you want to understand these notes? IMHO
> the range of messages that catalogers send to the reader about info that's
> on the reverse of the tp should be widely intelligible, and very probably
> far beyond those who will encounter "verso" in any other context. They
> would, however, understand something like "reverse of the title page." (May
> lightning strike me dead!) Use of "leaf" would cause some real head
> scratching.
>
> "Cancel," on the other hand, is used for a technical reason that only
> those interested in book structure have any need to know--true?
>
> --Jackie Dooley, OCLC Research
>
> Sent via iMobile
>
>
> On Nov 30, 2012, at 7:32 AM, "JOHN LANCASTER" <jjlancaster at me.com> wrote:
>
> > The analogy with the common and acceptable "cancel title" comes to mind.
> >
> > John Lancaster
> >
> >
> > On Nov 30, 2012, at 10:16 AM, "Noble, Richard" <richard_noble at brown.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> >> You either do or don't know what a "verso" is--we can inform the
> uninformed only to the most limited extent. Wouldn't "verso of title"
> serve? Those who know will know what that means, and those who don't won't
> understand any of these phrases. Perhaps we should simply not mention it,
> to avoid giving offense.
> >>
> >> RICHARD NOBLE : RARE BOOKS CATALOGER : JOHN HAY LIBRARY : BROWN
> UNIVERSITY
> >> PROVIDENCE, RI 02912 : 401-863-1187/FAX 863-3384 :
> RICHARD_NOBLE at BROWN.EDU
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 10:06 AM, JOHN LANCASTER <jjlancaster at me.com>
> wrote:
> >> My first suggestion is to distinguish between leaves and pages - a page
> can't have a verso; only a leaf can, despite the widespread (mis-)usage
> "t.p. verso" and variants thereof.
> >>
> >> Beyond that, I don't think it matters much which comes first.  "Verso
> of title leaf" seems more natural to me, but "Title leaf verso" is equally
> comprehensible.
> >>
> >> John Lancaster
> >>
> >>
> >> On Nov 30, 2012, at 9:59 AM, Will Evans <evans at bostonathenaeum.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> If, under RDA, we are to cease abbreviations, how are folks planning
> to spell out “T.p. verso” in note fields?
> >>>
> >>> Some thoughts:
> >>>
> >>> Title page verso
> >>> Title-page verso
> >>> Title page, verso
> >>> Title-page, verso
> >>> Verso of title page
> >>> Verso of title-page
> >>>
> >>> Or is verso to arcane or Latinate for today’s end-user?
> >>>
> >>> Suggestions?
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>>
> >>> Will
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
> >>> Will Evans
> >>> Chief Rare Materials Catalog Librarian
> >>> Library of the Boston Athenaeum
> >>> 10 1/2 Beacon Street
> >>> Boston, MA   02108
> >>>
> >>> Tel:  617-227-0270 ext. 224
> >>> Fax: 617-227-5266
> >>> www.bostonathenaeum.org
> >>>
> >>> WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserver.lib.byu.edu/pipermail/dcrm-l/attachments/20121130/fcb000c6/attachment.htm>