[DCRM-L] Deckled edges vs. Untrimmed edges

Sat Dec 14 17:28:21 MST 2013

Richard and Mike,
Thanks for the input on that. So is the term "Laid papers" only applicable to hand made? I notice the Paper thesaurus has a narrower term "Modern laid papers." How is that different from "Antique laid papers"? When is the time break between antique and modern? It would be nice to have scope notes on these terms.

I notice Terry Belanger's piece talks about "moldmade paper." It's a rather confusing thing to me because he says they're made on "a mesh drum divided into compartments functioning like deckles." Maybe this shows a lack of imagination on my part, but that doesn't fit my mental image of "moldmade." Moldmade sounds more like hand-made laid paper. I suppose I just haven't seen a mold that includes a "mesh drum"!

Thanks, Ted

From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Mike Garabedian
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 4:44 PM
To: DCRM Users' Group
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Deckled edges vs. Untrimmed edges

But wait, there's more: For members interested in artificially deckling the already-trimmed edges in their collections, I give you the Dual Edge Ripper: http://www.dualedgeripper.com/

Merry Christmas!

--
Mike Garabedian
Collections Management Librarian
Wardman Library, Whittier College
562.907.4859
mgarabedian at whittier.edu<mailto:mgarabedian at whittier.edu>

On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Noble, Richard <richard_noble at brown.edu<mailto:richard_noble at brown.edu>> wrote:
Chainlines and wirelines can be added to machine-made paper with a dandy roll. By themselves they are no indication of hand-making, though those made with a dandy roll have a characteristic look.

A posting to Book_Arts-L from one T. Belanger:

http://www.cool.conservation-us.org/byform/mailing-lists/bookarts/2009/02/msg00343.html

There's more to be found by Google-searching "artificial deckle edges" (use the quotes), the phrase that Dard Hunter used, and probably more via "artificial deckled edges".

RICHARD NOBLE :: RARE MATERIALS CATALOGUER :: JOHN HAY LIBRARY
BROWN UNIVERSITY  ::  PROVIDENCE, R.I. 02912  ::  401-863-1187<tel:401-863-1187>
<Richard_Noble at Br<mailto:RICHARD_NOBLE at BROWN.EDU>own.edu<http://own.edu>>

On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Ted P Gemberling <tgemberl at uab.edu<mailto:tgemberl at uab.edu>> wrote:
Erin,
That's interesting. Do you have any idea how one would artificially "deckle" paper?

I just checked a couple of those 1893-94 books which have "Deckled edges (Paper)" as genre terms and found they were printed on laid paper with vertical chain lines. So I imagine that to get the deckles they just left them untrimmed. The ABC for Book Collectors (2006 Reprint), p. 221, says that according to some authorities, cut means that the edges of a book's leaves have been cut smooth; trimmed that they have been more roughly levelled. But the writer says that distinction isn't observed by most people: catalogers treat the terms as synonymous.

I suppose following that distinction, you could say the two books I examined are trimmed but not cut. Trimmed so the deckles are still present to some extent, so the distinction between "untrimmed" and "deckled" might be meaningful. "Deckled" then means "uncut." But since the distinction isn't ordinarily observed between cut and trimmed, maybe there shouldn't be both terms in the thesaurus.

Ted

From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu>] On Behalf Of Erin Blake
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 5:26 PM

To: DCRM Users' Group
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Deckled edges vs. Untrimmed edges

I think the noun/verb issue Richard mentioned is the key: these aren't deckle edges (which are naturally-occurring on untrimmed handmade sheets). They've been "deckled" (by a deckler?).

So, "deckled edges" or "artificial deckle edges" but not "artificial deckled edges."

Erin.

----------------
Erin C. Blake, Ph.D.  |  Interim Head of Collection Information Services and Cataloging; Curator of Art & Special Collections  |  Folger Shakespeare Library  |  201 E. Capitol St. SE, Washington, DC, 20009  |  eblake at folger.edu<mailto:eblake at folger.edu>  |  office tel. +1 202-675-0323<tel:%2B1%20202-675-0323>  |  fax +1 202-675-0328<tel:%2B1%20202-675-0328>  |  www.folger.edu<http://www.folger.edu>

From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Ted P Gemberling
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 5:45 PM
To: DCRM Users' Group
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Deckled edges vs. Untrimmed edges

Richard,
I just saw one thing that bears out your interpretation. The books with "Deckled edges" are all published in 1893 or 1894. They appear to be histories of printing. One is The binding of books by Herbert P. Horne, and another, Early printed books by E. Gordon Duff. Were those known to be printed in an intentionally "old-fashioned" style?

Our books with "Untrimmed edges" are all much earlier, but maybe that's mainly because we don't ordinarily put physical description 655's on books later than about the early 19th century.
Ted

From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Noble, Richard
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 4:31 PM
To: DCRM Users' Group
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Deckled edges vs. Untrimmed edges

I assume--though without support from a scope note--the "deckled edges" are edges treated so as to resemble those of untrimmed handmade paper, a bit of late C19+ pseudo-poshery. Untrimmed edges are just untrimmed, whatever sort of edges they may have, for which I wouldn't use the term "Deckled edges" myself, though I might cite natural deckle edges in a note as evidence that the paper in question is handmade.

I expect disagreement, for which there is certainly sufficient reason. Perhaps the addition of a term "Artificial deckled edges" would clarify usage. ("Deckle edges" would be the better usage, since deckle is a noun, not a verb: a deckle leaves deckle edges in the sheet. "Deckle" as a verb might mean ... to knock someone to the floor repeatedly?)

This interpretation is supported by the UF "Feathered edges" for "Deckled edges", which could only be an artificial feature, if the phrase is even standard usage in some context (I don't recall seeing it in a bibliographical writing).

RICHARD NOBLE :: RARE MATERIALS CATALOGUER :: JOHN HAY LIBRARY
BROWN UNIVERSITY  ::  PROVIDENCE, R.I. 02912  ::  401-863-1187<tel:401-863-1187>
<Richard_Noble at Br<mailto:RICHARD_NOBLE at BROWN.EDU>own.edu<http://own.edu>>

On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Ted P Gemberling <tgemberl at uab.edu<mailto:tgemberl at uab.edu>> wrote:
I've noticed recently that our library has used both ACRL Paper terms "Deckled edges" and "Untrimmed edges." I notice that both the Paper Terms and Binding Terms thesauri have "Untrimmed edges"; "Deckled" is only in Paper Terms. What is the difference? I looked up the terms in ABC for Book Collectors and couldn't figure out what the difference was.
Thanks,

Ted P. Gemberling
Historical Collections Cataloger
UAB Lister Hill Library, rm. 234B
1720 Second Ave. South
Birmingham, Ala. 35294-0013
Phone: (205)934-2461<tel:%28205%29934-2461>
Fax: (205)934-3545<tel:%28205%29934-3545>

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