[DCRM-L] [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Re: Cataloging Question - how to catalog differences in publisher's bindings

Wed May 4 06:13:57 MDT 2022

We have a longstanding practice at the University of Minnesota Libraries of
using holdings records for copy-specific notes, and we are an Alma/Primo
library. We generally use 866 $z, though I wouldn't necessarily make that
choice today if we were starting fresh, and at some point I would like to
convert them to the more specific fields you mention. But that would be a
big project, because we also have gift notes, notes on provenance, etc., so
it would take a lot of parsing to get things into the proper type of note
field. We often have multiple copies, within specific special collections,
across different special collections, and in different campus libraries
across our system, so putting all of that into the bib record can
quickly become very messy and confusing to indicate which copy is being
specified.

On Tue, May 3, 2022 at 12:47 PM Julianne Simpson <
julianne.simpson at manchester.ac.uk> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I am just catching up with this conversation. I have been thinking about
> this issue again recently, though more in relation to retrieving specific
> data from the three copy specific fields we use – 561, 562 and 563.
>
>
>
> Until 2013 we had no facility to create public notes in our item records.
> On moving to Alma this opened up the possibility of using holdings, in
> particular as the 561, 562 and 563 are defined in MARC21 Holdings. However,
> I decided to stick with our established practice for the sake of
> consistency. As Karen mentioned, it isn’t always good for display if you
> have multiple copies but we do try to identify and group our copy notes
> where we can.
>
>
>
> I am still not entirely convinced that copy notes in holdings would be
> much improvement for display as they are likely to be a further click away,
> but I would  be very interested to hear from anyone who is using the
> holdings for detailed copy notes – especially Alma/Primo users.
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Julianne
>
>
>
>
>
> Julianne Simpson  l  Collections and Discovery Manager  l  John Rylands
> Research Institute and Library  l  University of Manchester  l  150
> Deansgate  l  Manchester  l  M3 3EH  l  Tel +44 (0)161 275 8749  l
> julianne.simpson at manchester.ac.uk
>
> John Rylands Research Institute and Library
> https://www.library.manchester.ac.uk/rylands/
>
> Follow our Special Collections Blog at
> http://rylandscollections.wordpress.com
>
> Twitter @TheJohnRylands
>
>
>
> <https://www.library.manchester.ac.uk/rylands/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> *On Behalf Of *Karen Attar
> *Sent:* 30 April 2022 20:42
> *To:* DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [DCRM-L] [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Re: Cataloging Question - how to
> catalog differences in publisher's bindings
>
>
>
> Thank you very much, Nick, for circulating this.
>
>
>
> I see that we barely stated explicitly in the document that 563 was
> intended to be for copy-specific bindings; there's just a passing reference
> in C.1. As Deborah has pointed out, that was our intention, though, and the
> $5 in the examples indicates our thinking.
>
>
>
> I think in the old UK MARC code there was an example of a binding note
> applying to all copies of an edition (UK MARC 531, notes on physical
> elements of a record). We transferred that to a plain 500 when we moved
> across to MARC21.
>
>
>
> I really like the Folger way of doing things. 561, 563, 590 are neat if
> one has only one copy of a title in a record. If one is dealing with
> several copies, it looks confusing to switch between copies: "Copy 1 is
> from the library of Joe Bloggs. Copy 2 has the bookplate of Mary Smith.
> Copy 1 is bound in speckled calf with red edges and marbled endpapers. Copy
> 2 is bound in limp vellum. Copy 1 is imperfect, wanting the final (blank)
> leaf." Much clearer for the user to have one paragraph per copy.
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Karen
>
>
>
> Dr Karen Attar
>
> Senate House Library, Univ. of London
>
> Malet St
>
> London
>
> WC1E 7HU
>
> 020 7862 8472
>
> http://research.sas.ac.uk/ies/fellow/516/dr-karen-attar/
>
>
>
> The University of London is an exempt charity in England and Wales.
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> on behalf of Nicholas Sparks <
> nicholas.a.sparks at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 30 April 2022 04:26
> *To:* DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [DCRM-L] [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Re: Cataloging Question - how to
> catalog differences in publisher's bindings
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> No doubt you’ve seen this, but for those who have not, I return again and
> again to this useful document:
>
>
>
> Guidelines for the Cataloguing of Rare Books.
>
>
>
>
> https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.cilip.org.uk/resource/group/6b7ad90b-bf8b-4d07-8406-0d28376b41f1/guidlines_for_the_cataloguin.pdf
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.ymaws.com%2Fwww.cilip.org.uk%2Fresource%2Fgroup%2F6b7ad90b-bf8b-4d07-8406-0d28376b41f1%2Fguidlines_for_the_cataloguin.pdf&data=05%7C01%7CKaren.Attar%40london.ac.uk%7C78e7245ee7e146deb7fa08da2a595716%7C185280ba7a0042ea940819eafd13552e%7C0%7C0%7C637868860743812292%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=b0vDsh5HXQvEmN8Vlu7oiCxIO4z6TcJwDgNrku4Gb6k%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> It gives some detail about use of 563 - but for clarifications,
> modification and extensions of theory and practice, I go to senior
> practitioners for precept and advice.
>
>
>
> Greetings from a lovely autumnal Adelaide,
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 at 12:54 am, Deborah J. Leslie <DJLeslie at folger.edu>
> wrote:
>
> I, too, would like to hear about use of the 563. We do not currently use
> it at the Folger.* It's my understanding that 563 was one of the UKMARC
> fields added when it merged with USMARC to become MARC21, so Karen knows
> whereof she speaks. This is the 563 scope: Binding information intended
> primarily for use with antiquarian materials, rare books and other special
> collections.  It doesn't specify bespoke bindings, but that does seem to
> be the intent. Looks like something has been lost in translation.
>
>
>
> That said, is there a problem using it for both types? Bespoke bindings
> would presumably be identified as such by a $5—which at present is pretty
> much knowledge limited to catalogers.
>
>
>
> *At the Folger, we've preferred to group all copy-specific information
> together in an 852$z rather than fragment it into separate fields. That may
> change as we bring up a new ILS.
>
> ______________________________
>
> Deborah J. Leslie, MA, MLS | Senior Cataloger | Folger Shakespeare Library
> | 201 East Capitol St., SE, Washington, DC 20003 | djleslie at folger.edu |
> www.folger.edu
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folger.edu%2F&data=05%7C01%7CKaren.Attar%40london.ac.uk%7C78e7245ee7e146deb7fa08da2a595716%7C185280ba7a0042ea940819eafd13552e%7C0%7C0%7C637868860743812292%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=RQggTqEijnd%2FRchik6Oe8qIjGcWFDQF2b8h5WdlO%2BPM%3D&reserved=0> |
> Opinions her own
>
>
>
> *From:* DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> *On Behalf Of *Ann K.D. Myers
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2022 16:33
> *To:* DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [DCRM-L] [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Re: Cataloging Question - how to
> catalog differences in publisher's bindings
>
>
>
> Interesting; the practice we follow (and which I have observed being
> followed by at least some other institutions) is to use the 563 for
> bindings common to an issue, such as publishers' bindings or artists' book
> bindings, and to use a local note (in our case the 590) for copy-specific
> bindings. I'd never seen that the 563 was intended for copy-specific
> bindings notes.
>
>
>
> --Ann
>
>
>
>
>
> Ann K.D. Myers
>
> Rare Books Cataloger
>
> Stanford Libraries
>
> Dept. of Special Collections and University Archives
>
> 415 Broadway, Floor 1, 8406
>
> Redwood City, CA 94063
>
> akdmyers at stanford.edu
>
> she/her/hers
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> on behalf of Karen Attar <
> karen.attar at london.ac.uk>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 26, 2022 3:31 AM
> *To:* DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [DCRM-L] [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Re: Cataloging Question - how to
> catalog differences in publisher's bindings
>
>
>
> I’d use 500 for bindings common to an issue, 563 for bespoke bindings: 563
> was devised as a copy-specific bindings note.
>
> Best,
>
> Karen
>
>
>
> Dr Karen Attar
>
> Curator of Rare Books and University Art
>
> Senate House Library, University of London
>
> Senate House
>
> Malet St
>
> London
>
> WC1E 7HU
>
> Tel. 020 7862 8472
>
> http://research.sas.ac.uk/search/fellow/516/dr-karen-attar/
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>
>
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> *From:* DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> *On Behalf Of *Patrick Perratt
> *Sent:* 26 April 2022 09:50
> *To:* DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [DCRM-L] [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Re: Cataloging Question - how to
> catalog differences in publisher's bindings
>
>
>
> Would you use 563 for describing publishers' bindings? Or just bespoke
> bindings? For variant publishers' bindings my inclination would have been
> to describe the known variations in a 500 (e.g. "... issued in red and blue
> variant colourways ...") with a local note describing which variant(s) we
> hold. I have wondered about using 563 for publishers' bindings, but found
> the guidance rather vague. I would be interested to hear what others are
> doing.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
> *Patrick Perratt* | *Librarian, Collections and Content, National Art
> Library*
>
> V&A South Kensington | Cromwell Road | London | SW7 2RL
>
> Email: p.perratt at vam.ac.uk |  Phone: 020 7942 2396
>
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> *From:* DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> on behalf of Sarah Stanhope <
> sstanhop at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 26 April 2022 03:19
> *To:* DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Re: [DCRM-L] Cataloging Question - how to
> catalog differences in publisher's bindings
>
>
>
> *CAUTION: *This email originates outside the V&A. Do not click on links
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Hi Deborah,
>
>
>
> Thank you for your advice on cataloging variant bindings. I am glad that
> you mentioned putting "different sizes on different records." The two items
> I was cataloging had examples of different sub-manifestations, but there
> were also other related sub-manifestations that were of different sizes.
> Thank you for helping me to sort out the complexities that may arise from
> these variations in bindings. You answered the question that I wasn't quite
> sure how to ask!
>
>
>
> With sincere appreciation,
>
> Sarah
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 11:41 AM Deborah J. Leslie <DJLeslie at folger.edu>
> wrote:
>
> Although variant bindings would strictly speaking be considered different
> "issues," I concur with Madelene and Randal that it is best to catalog them
> on the same record and make notes about differences. This is the approach
> taken by descriptive bibliographies, such as BAL. Either make a specific
> note about binding variants as is done on the OCLC record Randy mentions,
> or a general note that there are binding variations, with specifics
> associated with particular copies. With 19c books increasingly cataloged
> according to rare material standards, and without definitive evidence from
> publishers' archives, you can't be sure you've got them all described.
>
>
>
> Back when work was being done on DCRM2, the editorial group struggled to
> fit what we called "sub-expressions" or "sub-manifestations" into the IFLA
> LRM. It became less pressing with the new RDA toolkit and the decision to
> present DCRMR as a stand-alone manual. Still, it's an interesting question,
> how to represent sub-expressions/manifestations in a MARC bibliographic
> record.
>
>
>
> OTOH, I would put manifestations with different sizes on different
> records. There's a pretty big difference between 16 cm and 20 cm.
>
> ______________________________
>
> Deborah J. Leslie, MA, MLS | Senior Cataloger | Folger Shakespeare Library
> | 201 East Capitol St., SE, Washington, DC 20003 | djleslie at folger.edu |
> www.folger.edu
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fprotect-us.mimecast.com%2Fs%2FXD17CwpyJxtlPp4ClMLeZ%3Fdomain%3Deur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com&data=05%7C01%7CKaren.Attar%40london.ac.uk%7C78e7245ee7e146deb7fa08da2a595716%7C185280ba7a0042ea940819eafd13552e%7C0%7C0%7C637868860743812292%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Eg3ZRLACq4e%2BTdqa9mJEN5a0eOGUD8Pe4s0a0rcaXs4%3D&reserved=0> |
> Opinions her own
>
>
>
> *From:* DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> *On Behalf Of *Randal S.
> BRANDT
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 23, 2022 16:43
> *To:* DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [DCRM-L] Cataloging Question - how to catalog differences
> in publisher's bindings
>
>
>
> Hello Sarah,
>
>
>
> I agree with Madelene that you will most likely want to catalog all copies
> on the same bibliographic record. When publisher's binding variants are
> significant, I usually make a note describing the variants using a 500
> note. However, I can see using a 563 for these types of notes, as well. If
> there is a published description of the variants, I will reference that
> description. Then, I use local notes to identify which of the variants is
> present in our copy(ies). To see an example, look at OCLC# 2981235.
>
>
>
> I have mostly encountered the need for these types of notes in records for
> 19th century American literature titles (Mark Twain, George Sterling, Walt
> Whitman, etc.). That seems to be a time period when publishers (in the U.S.
> at least) were particularly fond of issuing books in a variety of bindings.
>
>
>
> Randal
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 23, 2022 at 12:45 PM Madelene Kinraid <
> madelene.kinraid at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Kia ora Sarah,
>
> I think keeping both/ all copies on the same record and recording the
> binding information in a 563 is perfect. You might need to assign copy
> numbers to differentiate, I would use a separate 563 to describe the
> binding of each copy. At our library I would add the binding information in
> a 590 note, but that’s just our practice.
>
> Best wishes
> Madelene
>
>
>
> > On 24/04/2022, at 7:12 AM, Sarah Stanhope <sstanhop at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Good Afternoon All,
> >
> > I have a cataloging question that is hopefully not too obvious. I have
> come across this with mostly special collections items and am a bit unsure
> how to properly catalog these types of books.
> >
> > When you have two books with completely different bindings and the text
> blocks are identical, would you add the binding information to a 563 and
> add both items on the same record?
> >
> > Are there any other fields/notes that you commonly add or would suggest?
> I haven't really come across this scenario for items that have different
> dimensions. Other than the binding (sometimes quite different and more
> elaborate than the other), the text block and all the publication
> information matches.
> >
> > Please let me know if you have any suggestions or can point me in the
> right direction!
> >
> > My sincere thanks,
> > Sarah Stanhope
> > Hirsch Library
> > Museum of Fine Arts, Houston
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Randal S. Brandt
>
> The Bancroft Library | University of California, Berkeley
>
> 510.643.2275 | rbrandt at berkeley.edu
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Nicholas Sparks, **M.Lib, PhD (Cantab)*
>
> Reviews Editor, *Script & Print: Bulletin of the Bibliographical Society
> of Australia and New Zealand*
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bsanz.org%2Fpublications%2Fscript-and-print%2F&data=05%7C01%7CKaren.Attar%40london.ac.uk%7C78e7245ee7e146deb7fa08da2a595716%7C185280ba7a0042ea940819eafd13552e%7C0%7C0%7C637868860743812292%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=BF41KcdyXxW7J%2BFZ2sZ0wTuO%2BslbcgGs4TZcm%2B6%2BEqs%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Honorary Associate Medieval and Early Modern Centre, University of Sydney
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sydney.edu.au%2Farts%2Fabout%2Four-people%2Facademic-staff%2Fnicholas-sparks.html&data=05%7C01%7CKaren.Attar%40london.ac.uk%7C78e7245ee7e146deb7fa08da2a595716%7C185280ba7a0042ea940819eafd13552e%7C0%7C0%7C637868860743812292%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=s4D0VPxsvwT2B2uJqoadERsKFjuhiPJRbSoK8WGKkTM%3D&reserved=0>
>

-- 
--
Christine DeZelar-Tiedman
Cataloging Policies and Practices Librarian | Cataloging, Metadata, &
Digitization Services | University of Minnesota Libraries
160 Wilson Library | 309 19th Ave. S. | Minneapolis, MN 55455
dezel002 at umn.edu
she, her, hers
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